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  1. #1441
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    The only country named is Syria. If I missed the list, please correct me.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...-united-states
    Last edited by sundealer; February 13th, 2017 at 11:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    Here is the text (with annotations explaining the legal gobbledygook contained therein). It refers to another document that list the seven countries.

    http://www.npr.org/2017/01/31/512439...tion-annotated

    Some Trump folks have tried to say that Trump was only doing what Obama had done in reference to the same seven countries, which is not true. Obama had only said they could not be included in the visa waiver program--meaning they would be more closely scrutinized before either being granted or denied entry to the US.
    Last edited by KathyInAR; February 13th, 2017 at 11:59 AM.
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  3. #1443
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    Quote Originally Posted by KathyInAR View Post
    Here is the text (with annotations explaining the legal gobbledygook contained therein). It refers to another document that list the seven countries.

    http://www.npr.org/2017/01/31/512439...tion-annotated

    Some Trump folks have tried to say that Trump was only doing what Obama had done in reference to the same seven countries, which is not true. Obama had only said they could not be included in the visa waiver program--meaning they would be more closely scrutinized before either being granted or denied entry to the US.
    That is the problem!

    People run off at the mouth without knowing what the hell they are talking about. They just spout the party talking points, facts be damned. Perhaps if they were capable of some independent thought, they would do some research on their own before they proved what others are thinking.

    I'm sorry, WTF was I thinking?
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  4. #1444
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    I don't fault the average lay citizen for not understanding all the nuances. However, with the track record of the bunch who lied themselves into office, I would hope they would not take everything said as the gospel...and start checking, with other sources and not just FOX.

    I don't excuse the administration, running the country is not a TV reality show that is scripted and then edited before it goes public. Now, "they" are saying DJT is frustrated and didn't realize how hard it was going to be...he ain't seen nuttin' yet! Already, even some GOP in Congress are questioning his mental health...
    Last edited by KathyInAR; February 13th, 2017 at 03:27 PM.
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  5. #1445
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcar View Post
    That is the problem!

    People run off at the mouth without knowing what the hell they are talking about. They just spout the party talking points, facts be damned. Perhaps if they were capable of some independent thought, they would do some research on their own before they proved what others are thinking.

    I'm sorry, WTF was I thinking?
    I provided a link to the complete EO. Again, the only country actually named is Syria.
    I found a preacher who spoke of the light but there was brimstone in his throat
    He'd show me the way according to him in return for my personal check
    I flipped my channel back to CNN and I lit another cigarette

  6. #1446
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    Quote Originally Posted by sundealer View Post
    The only country named is Syria. If I missed the list, please correct me.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...-united-states
    Quote Originally Posted by KathyInAR View Post
    Here is the text (with annotations explaining the legal gobbledygook contained therein). It refers to another document that list the seven countries.

    http://www.npr.org/2017/01/31/512439...tion-annotated

    Some Trump folks have tried to say that Trump was only doing what Obama had done in reference to the same seven countries, which is not true. Obama had only said they could not be included in the visa waiver program--meaning they would be more closely scrutinized before either being granted or denied entry to the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by sundealer View Post
    I provided a link to the complete EO. Again, the only country actually named is Syria.
    If you looked at the link I provided with the EO annotated (this is often done when laws and other legal written work is done that further explains how the law, regulation, EO, etc. are to be applied)--you will see that Trump's EO §3 (c), (of his EO) states:

    Sec. 3. Suspension of Issuance of Visas and Other Immigration Benefits to Nationals of Countries of Particular Concern. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall immediately conduct a review to determine the information needed from any country to adjudicate any visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual seeking the benefit is who the individual claims to be and is not a security or public-safety threat.

    (c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to
    section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).

    Below are the annotations which explain what is in the law that DJT incorporated into his EO that he and others tried to use to claim, incorrectly, that "Obama did the same first."

    After initial confusion over which countries this order actually refers to (because they are not listed here), the Department of Homeland Security issued a fact sheet that specified Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Iran, Somalia, Libya and Yemen. These countries were also specified in restrictions to the visa waiver program made by the Obama administration last year. Under the program, people from 38 countries can enter the U.S. with no visa whatsoever. These include most of our EU allies. Some 20 million people entered the U.S. under the visa waiver program in 2014, the Department of Homeland Security reports. Members of Congress had called for a tightening of the program, noting, for instance, that foreign fighters from several European nations have traveled to Syria to fight alongside ISIS and then returned to Europe.

    Brian NaylorNPR Washington Desk Correspondent



    Next annotation ▼


    As the order took effect, travelers who had previously been issued valid visas were detained at airports around the country, prompting protests and calls for their release. Judge Ann Donnelly in Brooklyn, N.Y., issued a temporary restraining order barring the deportation of as many as 200 people, citing the “irreparable harm” they would face. The mixed signals continue, however, as refugee advocates and resettlement groups say they lack guidance for helping refugees already in the pipeline, as NPR’s Deborah Amos reports.

    Dana FarringtonNPR Politics Digital Editor




    Section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f)states: (both these sections state the same thing; but, found in two different places in the statute)

    https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006/0-0-0-2364.html

    (f) Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regu lations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

    (f)Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.

    Section 217(f) INA (Immigration and Nationality Act) 217 pertains to "visa waivers" only:

    https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-4391.html

    INA: ACT 217 - VISA WAIVER


    8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12) states:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187

    8 U.S. Code § 1187 - Visa waiver program for certain visitors

    ...

    (12)Not present in Iraq, Syria, or any other country or area of concern(A)In generalExcept as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C)—(i)the alien has not been present, at any time on or after March 1, 2011—(I)in Iraq or Syria;

    (II)in a country that is designated by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)),section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or

    (III)in any other country or area of concern designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D); and


    (ii)regardless of whether the alien is a national of a program country, the alien is not a national of—(I)Iraq or Syria;

    (II)a country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or

    (III)any other country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D).
    ...
    Then there is The Fact Sheet produced by the Dept of Homeland Security which outlines the seven countries that wherein Obama and Congress designated the seven countries: (note that this pertains to the Visa Waiver Program only)

    https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states

    ...entry to the United States of nationals of certain designated countries—countries that were designated by Congress and the Obama Administration as posing national security risks in the Visa Waiver Program.
    ...
    Finally, this is how it came about that Obama listed the seven countries (note again that it is only as it pertains to the Visa Waiver Program):

    http://wreg.com/2017/01/30/banned-countries-based-on-list-from-obama-administration/

    ...

    In December 2015, President Obama signed into law a measure placing limited restrictions on certain travelers who had visited Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria on or after March 1, 2011.

    Two months later, the Obama administration added Libya, Somalia, and Yemen to the list, in what it called an effort to address “the growing threat from foreign terrorist fighters.”
    The restrictions specifically limited what is known as visa-waiver travel by those who had visited one of the seven countries within the specified time period.

    People who previously could have entered the United States without a visa were instead required to apply for one if they had traveled to one of the seven countries.

    Under the law, dual citizens of visa-waiver countries and Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria could no longer travel to the U.S. without a visa. Dual citizens of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen could, however, still use the visa-waiver program if they hadn’t traveled to any of the seven countries after March 2011.
    ...

    And that my friend is how they came up with the list of seven countries...

    This is not an argument for or against the EO, only to answer your question of where the list of seven countries came from.

    Okay, now once you have read and understand all of this, you will be eligible to play an attorney on TV as well as stay in a Holiday Inn Express.
    Last edited by KathyInAR; February 13th, 2017 at 09:09 PM.
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  7. #1447
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    Unlike others, I did read your link.
    I understood it.

    EO's are not laws.
    US Codes are. So why are there some many questions?
    The codes were on the books before Trump. All he's done is to make sure they are being enforced.
    I found a preacher who spoke of the light but there was brimstone in his throat
    He'd show me the way according to him in return for my personal check
    I flipped my channel back to CNN and I lit another cigarette

  8. #1448
    Piney-Woods Rooter

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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    To change the subject talk about a connection that everybody missed

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...al-forces.html
    Elect a Clown You Get a Circus

  9. #1449
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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    Quote Originally Posted by sundealer View Post
    Unlike others, I did read your link.
    I understood it.

    EO's are not laws.
    US Codes are. So why are there some many questions?
    The codes were on the books before Trump. All he's done is to make sure they are being enforced.
    Apparently a Federal District Judge and a panel of a Federal Appeals Court believe that the EO as written and the whereas and wherefores of how it was intended to be enforced were un-Constitutional. It is my opinion that someone must have gotten to DJT and convinced him that rather than appeal the 9th Cir's decision to the SCOTUS, to write/issue another EO that will prevail.

    Just want to add, any actions taken by the government, even those covered by statute must still comport with the Constitution. Recall how many times you have heard that a particular law or part of the statute has been deemed un-Constitutional by the SCOTUS?
    Last edited by KathyInAR; February 13th, 2017 at 11:29 PM.
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  10. #1450
    Piney-Woods Rooter

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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    And here where the BS info comes from.

    Elect a Clown You Get a Circus

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    Default Re: Travel Ban Sham By The Numbers: Trump Is Inventing Refugees’ Threat to National Secu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcar View Post
    To change the subject talk about a connection that everybody missed

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...al-forces.html
    Interesting...
    "...of no more satisfying conceit than the discovery of such hidden depths of character in one's own child..." - From Survive the Savage Sea
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  12. #1452
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    Default Missiles over Syria vs Missiles over Afghanistan

    Can't wait to see Douchbag Hannity's response to the 59 missiles deployed to Syria to kill 6 low-echelon soldiers, 9 civilians, including 4 children at an expense of about $60-million dollars--that is $10-million to kill each of the Syrian soldiers.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...es-washington/

    https://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/0...for-try/200295

    Hannity said that the Clinton attack on Afghanistan, in or about 1998, trying to get bin Laden was a "wag the dog" exercise to turn interest from the Monica problem.

    Which of Trump's problems will Hannity claim that the attack on Syria is he "wagging the dog" at? Never mind he has royally pissed off Russia, this action could cause more American and Russian deaths in the area because ...

    ...

    The Kremlin also said it was immediately suspending its air safety agreement with the US in response to missile strikes on a Syrian air base.

    The memorandum, signed in October 2015, is designed to avoid clashes in the crowded airspace over Syria, with each side giving the other warning over planned strikes.

    Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian prime minister, said the attacks had fatally undermined Moscow’s initial trust in the new US administration
    and brought the countries to the “the verge of a military clash.”

    Russia is moving a warship into the waters from whence our missiles came from to protect the Syrian leadership...does that mean they would attack our warships should DJT decide to send more missiles to Syria or even if they just think he might or in retaliation for having already done so?

    Did anyone hear the language DJT used to announce the attack..."no child of God should ..." Really, does anyone think he has ever in his life uttered such a phrase? Did the sight of those poor innocent children who are more of like children who were killed previously in the same way by the same Syrian leader that just a week or so ago the Trump administration announced at the UN they had no interest in seeing removed change? Will/Did the sight of those children change Trump's position on Syrian refugees? Stay tuned.

    Did Trump screw up by not going to Congress first? I'm not sure...


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ack/100153944/

    In the late summer of 2013, nearly two years before announcing his candidacy for president, Donald Trump did not mince words on his opposition to a U.S. military strike in Syria.

    "What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval," Trump tweeted on the morning of Aug. 29, 2013.

    A tweet earlier that month said: "The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not."

    Moments after Pentagon officials announced that President Trump ordered an airstrike against Syria military targets in retaliation for Tuesday's chemical weapons attack that killed 86 people, members of Congress pointed out Trump's reversal.
    ...
    This man is dangerous and he and his "advisors" for the most part, especially the ones he will half-way listen too don't have a clue!

    Trump is ignorant and impulsive, a bad combination. Now, he wants to work on a tax cut when he needs to buy more Tomahawk missiles...he just wasted a bunch of 'em. Those in his administration who are knowledgeable can't control him, the Russians are finding out that they bought a pig in a poke...PENCE and CONGRESS, DO YOU FRIGGING JOB ...
    Last edited by KathyInAR; April 7th, 2017 at 07:48 PM.
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  13. #1453
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    Default DeSantis Launches Investigation into Obama Administration Claims Regarding Chemical Weap

    Rep. Ron DeSantis (FL-06), National Security Subcommittee Chairman, today sent a letter to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson asking for documents and communications regarding the 2013 deal that required Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to surrender his chemical weapons stockpile.
    The full letter can be read here. DeSantis issued the following statement:
    “The failure of President Obama to enforce his own red line regarding chemical weapons in Syria was a defining moment for his presidency. Obama and administration officials such as Susan Rice claimed that the red line was obsolete because the Syrian dictator Assad gave up all of his chemical weapons in a U.S.-Russia brokered deal. We now know this was not true. Disturbingly, several former Obama administration officials have recently said that the administration knew that Syria did not actually forfeit all of its chemical weapons after all. We will be investigating what the Obama administration knew, when it knew it, and why it didn't share what it knew with Congress, the Trump administration, and the American people."


    More...
    rss news by Congressman Ron DeSantis representing Florida's 6th Congressional District
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  14. #1454
    Scrub cow Flagler Live's Avatar
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    Default Trump, You Bombed Syria Because You Care. Now Get Rid of the Muslim Ban in Any Form.

    Both versions of that order, now held up in the courts, would have indefinitely banned all migration from Syria — and suspended refugee resettlement from everywhere.
    The post Trump, You Bombed Syria Because You Care. Now Get Rid of the Muslim Ban in Any Form. appeared first on FlaglerLive.


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    Default 105 Missiles Fired at Syria Is 10 Times The Number of Syrian Refugees We’ve Taken In All

    “This is about humanity,” President Trump said of attacking Syria. A look at his response to other regional catastrophes shows his claim doesn't begin to add up.
    The post 105 Missiles Fired at Syria Is 10 Times The Number of Syrian Refugees We’ve Taken In All Year appeared first on FlaglerLive.


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  16. #1456
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    Default Carla Ortiz Shocking Video From Alepo Contradicts Corp. News Coverage

    she is painting a different picture of the mess we have made in the middle east.
    there is no proof whatsoever that the first word of it is truthful. Not one "fact" is has been corroborated
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    Default Re: My question, How Long ....

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyk View Post
    Before we are in Pakistan?
    Nine years later now the question gets more complex.

    With an incendiary tweet, Trump shifted America's approach to Pakistan – but will his strategy work?The BBC spoke to Daniel Markey, author of No Exit From Pakistan and a research professor at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies.
    Why can’t the USA and Pakistan agree on the ‘war on terror’?


    pakistan has reacted angrily after the Trump administration suspended aid and the US president accused Islamabad of lies and deceit over many years

    US aid can't compensate for damage done to Pakistan during war on terror in Afghanistan – Imran Khan
    The longstanding alliance between Pakistan and the United States is faltering, with Washington accusing Islamabad of supporting terrorism. How serious is this spat and what will it mean for America’s Afghan war? We ask Imran Khan, member of Pakistan’s National Assembly and leader of the Pakistan Movement for Justice.

    Why China and the U.S. Are Vying for Dominance in Pakistan


    there is no proof whatsoever that the first word of it is truthful. Not one "fact" is has been corroborated

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    Default Re: The Real Enemy: Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabism, Mother to al-Qaeda, ISIS and the Taliban

    It is indeed a complex and dangerous world we are living in.
    "...of no more satisfying conceit than the discovery of such hidden depths of character in one's own child..." - From Survive the Savage Sea
    Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking.


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