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Thread: Good Grief!!!

  1. #21
    Cracklin
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    I was going to respond until I read..."since most liberal positions are by their very nature emotional instead of rational".......well, then why bother?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    I don't have strong feelings one way or the other regarding the statues honoring the Confederate military and its leaders; however, but of course I am a white Christian female and haven't suffered discrimination based on my gender, race, or religion. However, I don't know if that is true of other Americans whose ancestors were slaves. For many years some of our American citizens just accepted that they "had to" ride at the back of the bus, not eat at the lunch counter in Woolsworth, nor drink from a public water fountain marked "whites only"...until "someone" came along and decided that the discrimination was unwarranted and was brave enough to do something about it. Heck! I remember growing up that there was only a certain small part of the beach there in Daytona Beach where Blacks were allowed to go...they were not "allowed" to be at the beach in front of the Boardwalk or at any other part of the 23-miles of the beach except the tiny little strip of beach allocated to them. So, to say they were not bothered by the statues honoring Confederate generals, etc. or ever gave it a second thought may not be an accurate statement.

    Who thinks it would be appropriate for Germany to have statues around the country honoring Hitler, Himmler, Göring, Goebbels, et.al.? Do we "honor" those military leaders who were responsible for the Trail of Tears or the internment of the Japanese Americans during WWII?

    What people want to do or have on private property is their own business and people can either support or not those establishments and areas; however, on public property maybe we should not be honoring those who were "the enemy" of the United States. Or if the Civil War is represented, which should of course not be forgotten, it should be by showing the horrors of it and not "honoring" those who lead the rebellion. But, like I said I have no really strong feelings one way or the other...I suppose those local governments who decide to remove them are doing so with the support of the majority or they will suffer the consequences.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    I love how the labels get tossed around.

    Here's a few things those horrible liberals were behind.

    https://www.nobeliefs.com/RepublicanDay.htm
    Elect a Clown You Get a Circus
    Likes KathyInAR liked this post

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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by limner43 View Post
    I was going to respond until I read..."since most liberal positions are by their very nature emotional instead of rational".......well, then why bother?
    I have never found "wnd.com" to be a reliable or honest resource -- by its very nature, it is usually hateful and very rightwing-nut like. It is a constant source of left/Democrat/liberal bashing for bashing's sake...nothing more and nothing less.
    Last edited by KathyInAR; August 15th, 2017 at 10:53 AM.
    "...of no more satisfying conceit than the discovery of such hidden depths of character in one's own child..." - From Survive the Savage Sea
    Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking.


  5. #25
    Cracklin
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    American history is replete with discrimination and slavery. Remember that the Europeans, over several generations, eradicated the native population that resided on this continent in the name of progress, Christianity, and the divine right of kings. American Indians were bound into slavery; they were murdered with consent of the government; they were ultimately ushered onto the most inhospitable reservations on land the whites did not want. That is, of course, until gold was discovered , and the Indians were once again pushed off the land. This country's heritage is oppression and discrimination; so it it really a surprise that this divine right of whites still exists?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Elect a Clown You Get a Circus
    Likes KathyInAR liked this post

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    It seems more recently that Melanie is allowing dumbass to touch her...imagine those handlers have reigned her in...at least for the moment.
    "...of no more satisfying conceit than the discovery of such hidden depths of character in one's own child..." - From Survive the Savage Sea
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    What a person will do for money.
    Elect a Clown You Get a Circus

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by KathyInAR View Post
    Do we "honor" those military leaders who were responsible for the Trail of Tears or the internment of the Japanese Americans during WWII?
    why yes we do , Prominently
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Andrew Jackson is about to be sent to the "back of the bill"; besides, I don't think that is it the same as "honoring" a man who rode into battle and led an Army against the United States is quite the same; however, I do see where you are coming from...same as for Franklin Roosevelt. While both these men were president during times when events happened that are, IMO, not anything that Americans should take pride in, they have other remarkable achievements that deserve recognition. As I have said earlier, I really don't have strong feelings one way or the other...I am just trying to see the situation through the eyes of those who may feel emotional pain when faced daily with seeing someone honored who was leading an Army that was fighting to keep people such as themselves enslaved.

    Robert D. Lee was much more than a Confederate general and deserves to be honored for his behavior after the war. Some have said it the the "context" in which he is honored that they find offensive and inappropriate. There are some who even believe that he would be against having been honored in such a way himself.

    http://www.richmond.com/opinion/thei...6e3d5a2df.html

    Below is the story from the above link: (Quote thingie not working correctly.)
    MONUMENT TO RECONCILIATION
    R.David Cox: After the Civil War, Robert E. Lee led the charge for reconciliation

    • By R. David Cox


    All the statues of Robert E. Lee in Confederate uniform fail to convey one critical point: He was more than that. After Appomattox, Lee turned from
    being a leader in war to a leader of peace. As I found in examining his religious convictions, he became — largely because of his faith — the South’s
    preeminent exponent of reconciliation. That, I believe, is why he needs to be remembered, but in a different way.

    Just before surrendering, Lee began seeking peace. Some aides proposed fighting an ISIS-style guerrilla war. Lee had none of it.
    “The Confederacy has failed,” he told them. “As Christian men, … we must consider only the effect which our actions will have upon the
    country at large.”

    If his men could return home “quietly and quickly” they could “plant crops & begin to repair the rages of the war. That is what I must
    now try to bring about.” Realistically, yet faithfully, he looked to the future.

    Like many, Lee had believed the Confederacy could win only if God so willed. It lost. He connected the dots.

    “God has thought fit to afflict us most deeply & his chastening hand is not yet stayed,” Lee, an active Episcopalian, wrote in May 1865,
    to a priest in Petersburg. “We have only to submit to his gracious will & pray for his healing mercy.”

    That meant seeking genuine peace, “that the afflictions & interests of the country may be united and not a forced & hollow truce formed,
    to be broken at the first convenient opportunity. To this end all good men should labour.”

    He discouraged anyone going into exile as some contemplated — and as he was invited to do. “It would be better for them and their country
    if they remained at their homes and shared the fate of their respective States.”

    What, then, for him?

    Publishers sought his memoirs, predicting profits of a best-seller. Businesses coveted his name, promising great reward. Major educational
    institutions craved the leadership of one who had been an innovative West Point superintendent.

    But a devastated little school in remote Lexington, Virginia, captured his imagination. Asked to be its president, Lee sought the advice of a
    priest in Albemarle County. When he proposed more viable institutions, Lee argued that “this door and not another was opened to him by
    Providence” and wanted reassurance that he could do the job such that his remaining years would be “a comfort and a blessing to his
    suffering country.”

    At that moment, the cleric recalled, Lee’s “whole countenance glowed with animation.” Robert E. Lee came to Washington College, to bind
    the wounds of war and prepare for the future by guiding the young into practical, principled ways.

    Genuine peace demanded prosperity, so Lee developed a curriculum aimed at attaining it: business, journalism, law, mining, engineering.
    To traditional classical studies he added English, modern history, and sciences. By 1868, his little college had become the second-largest
    academic institution in the South.

    Reconciliation involved racial justice. Though Lee shared the prevailing white presumption of their own superiority, and could say so in ways
    that make us cringe, his faith also held that each person was a child of God, whose rights warranted protection. In Lexington, his influence
    helped dissipate one lynch mob aimed at a black man, and another directed at a white.

    Reunion meant putting the war in the past. When officials at Gettysburg asked his help in placing monuments on the battlefield,
    he declined, advising “not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the example of those nations who endeavoured to
    obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered.”

    On that basis, together with his innate humility, one wonders if he would want any monuments to him whatsoever.

    Statues of General Lee on Traveller can’t convey this part of his story, a story which challenges his stereotype. One who strove
    to move beyond a cause he deemed lost makes a poor poster child for the Lost Cause.

    Nor can I imagine that he who declined to run for Virginia’s governorship lest he arouse passions would approve of candidates
    wrapping themselves in Confederate flags. For white supremacist protesters to invoke his name violates Lee’s most fundamental
    convictions. And those who look on Lee only as military personage — favorably or not — would do well to recognize the telling
    paradox of Lee, one of the very few generals defeated in a bitter civil war who then became the paramount advocate of peace.



    R. David Cox, an Episcopal priest who was rector of R. E. Lee Memorial Church from 1987-2000, now teaches history at
    Southern Virginia University and is author of “The Religious Life of Robert E. Lee.”


    Last edited by KathyInAR; August 15th, 2017 at 09:03 PM.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by limner43 View Post
    I was going to respond until I read..."since most liberal positions are by their very nature emotional instead of rational".......well, then why bother?
    The primary point I was trying to make, is the rise of violence perpetrated by liberal groups, that was the first search result i found that listed some more significant events. But upon your contention that you appear to have used to avoid engaging in a dialogue, (which seems a tad emotional)
    Quote Originally Posted by KathyInAR View Post
    I have never found "wnd.com" to be a reliable or honest resource -- by its very nature, it is usually hateful and very rightwing-nut like. It is a constant source of left/Democrat/liberal bashing for bashing's sake...nothing more and nothing less.
    Maybe a more respectable publication that says essentially the same thing with bigger words and more details.


    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...olitical-wars/
    Republicans think of Democrats as godless, unpatriotic, Volvo-driving, France-loving, elitist latte guzzlers, whereas Democrats dismiss Republicans as ignorant, NASCAR-obsessed, gun-fondling religious fanatics.
    Liberals, he says, tend to value two of them: caring for people who are vulnerable and fairness, which for liberals tends to mean sharing resources equally. Conservatives care about those things, too, but for them fairness means proportionality—that people should get what they deserve based on the amount of effort they have put in. Conservatives also emphasize loyalty and authority>, values helpful for maintaining a stable society.
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Kathy, they were not simply the president at the time they both directly ordered the actions.
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ROOT View Post
    Kathy, they were not simply the president at the time they both directly ordered the actions.
    I realize that but, do you think their being placed on our currency was for those reasons/actions only or maybe in spite of those reasons and based on other accomplishments as they are not depicted in such a way to indicate that they are being "honored" for those reasons as is a General, in uniform, riding his horse into battle. I've never been one who was willing to totally disregard good things that a person does because of some bad decision unless that decision is so heinous that it really does cancel out all the good.

    Many of these statues are beautiful works of art and there are certainly places for them...maybe in private collections or museums. I certainly would not want to see them destroyed; but maybe it is not appropriate for them to be on public property any longer.
    Last edited by KathyInAR; August 15th, 2017 at 09:13 PM.
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Now on this issue I do have strong feelings: Is the current administration trying to deprive American citizens of their rights under the First and Fourth Amendments and their rights to privacy?

    http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecur...-trump-website

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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    On my recent visit to Budapest there was a movement against revisionism that I feel may be comparable, I think i took a photo of the letter that was posted , but essentially the argument was that new monuments and symbolism were whitewashing the local participation in the holocaust. I'll look for the image , my main PC is down so I haven't got all of those organized.
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    I have a big problem with that as well ! Good for Dream host for fighting it. http://www.disruptj20.org/tag/press/
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us
    Likes KathyInAR liked this post

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Remember that the Europeans, over several generations, eradicated the native population that resided on this continent in the name of progress, Christianity, and the divine right of kings.
    And we have a whole town honoring that accomplishment. It's called St. Augustine! Maybe you've been?
    I found a preacher who spoke of the light but there was brimstone in his throat
    He'd show me the way according to him in return for my personal check
    I flipped my channel back to CNN and I lit another cigarette

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    >>>Name:  The Reality.jpg
Views: 20
Size:  112.4 KB
    "...of no more satisfying conceit than the discovery of such hidden depths of character in one's own child..." - From Survive the Savage Sea
    Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking.


  19. #39
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    At least dumbass has the reprobate David Duke's seal of approval...

    https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...ille/23078668/
    "...of no more satisfying conceit than the discovery of such hidden depths of character in one's own child..." - From Survive the Savage Sea
    Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking.


  20. #40
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    Default Re: Good Grief!!!

    Not just a political failure, a moral failure...and he told us who he was during the campaign and sadly, not enough good people were listening...

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politi...nce/index.html
    "...of no more satisfying conceit than the discovery of such hidden depths of character in one's own child..." - From Survive the Savage Sea
    Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking.


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