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    Default Putin is Pro immigration , should America follow his Model ?

    Please preface your comments by answering the following 4 questions on the topic


    • How are our self interest Similar?
    • what is the biggest difference in our need for immigrants
    • how should our pathway to citizenship be qualified?
    • should Immigration be prioritized by the immigrants needs or the benefits to the rest of the population who share the land?


    Did you know, that most people living in Russia, including foreigners, qualify for a hectare of free land in the Far East?
    There are some conditions attached, like they cannot resell it even if they build their own enterprises on it.
    The difficulty is that many of these areas are not yet ‘colonised’ properly so there is little infrastructure around – the need for development is what gave rise to the law in the first place.
    Families of 3 children or more qualify for a plot of land anywhere, not just the Far East, which ensures their accessibility to necessary infrastructure.
    Russia remains one of the least populated countries in the world, in proximity to its size. The natural population decreases annually, at an alarming rate.
    Vladimir Putin has held his 16th annual Direct Line Q&A on June 7th, 2018. The entire conference was 4.5 hours long and this year has included all regional governors and heads of Ministries to be available live via video conference.

    In this segment, Putin addresses mainly Ukrainian citizens in their quest to obtaining Russian citizenship.
    It is little known that in 2014, Russia took on the most amount of refugees than any other country, as confirmed by the appropriate UN report.
    Over 2 million Ukrainian citizens currently live and work in Russia – which is ironic, given Russia is portrayed as an ‘aggressor’ state by Ukrainian media.
    The Ukraine currently has one of the lowest GDP rates in Europe, so economic migrants make sense – but also, demographic migrants. As Putin explains, Russia has a serious demographic problem.
    Despite various measures taken in recent years to improve the birth rates, such as financial assistance for every 2nd or 3rd child, and other subsidies – the problems of the past remain unworkable.
    In the 1990s, Russia suffered a huge drop in birth rates, which 20-30 years later result in more than a 27% drop in women of child-birthing age.
    The only solution is to attract back those countrymen who left, and those who affiliate with “the Russian world” – irrespective of their original nationality.
    But this is not a case of mindless migration, the immigration laws are to be amended in a way that reflects the job market prognosis, and the merits and competencies of the foreigners who may be considering applying for Russian citizenship.

    The irony of the situation – is that Ukraine too has one of the lowest birth rates in Europe. Coupled with the current outflow of labour power, due to its economic predicament, the Ukraine is estimated to lose a large proportion of their population in coming years. Despite all this – the Ukrainian government continues their offensive against fellow Slavic people, in the Republics of Lugansk and Donetsk, which seek independence from Ukraine (relevant outtake featured at the end of the video.).

    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Putin is Pro immigration , should America follow his Model ?

    IMO, our countries are so different as are our incentric values it is not possible to answer those four questions in a meaningful way.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Putin is Pro immigration , should America follow his Model ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KathyInAR View Post
    IMO, our countries are so different as are our incentric values it is not possible to answer those four questions in a meaningful way.
    you seriously believe, that humans born in another part of the world don't want the same basic quality of life that we do ? I take it you have never explored or immersed into a culture experience that is outside of your comfort zone.

    Please elaborate on what exactly are those Value differences are ? Because your sounding kinda racist ! When Trump calls a country a shit hole, CNN tells you to be outraged , If he specifically addresses MS13 gang members as thugs He is condemned for painting all of Mexico and latin America with that brush. Yet here you are painting Russians as absolutely incompatible with American values, Id just like to know what color the paint is and how extensive your sampling?
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Putin is Pro immigration , should America follow his Model ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ROOT View Post
    you seriously believe, that humans born in another part of the world don't want the same basic quality of life that we do ? That is not what I said at all. I take it you have never explored or immersed into a culture experience that is outside of your comfort zone. I have lived in Europe and known people from all over the world--spending 26 years as an Army spouse in and around soldiers who brought wives back from every corner of the earth and getting to know and becoming friends with them I would say that I am not totally ignorant of many various customs and lifestyles of people around this world.

    Please elaborate on what exactly are those Value differences are ? Because your sounding kinda racist ! When Trump calls a country a shit hole, CNN tells you to be outraged , If he specifically addresses MS13 gang members as thugs He is condemned for painting all of Mexico and latin America with that brush. Yet here you are painting Russians as absolutely incompatible with American values, Id just like to know what color the paint is and how extensive your sampling?
    There is a reason that there are tens of thousands of people trying to come into this country every month and why many risk everything to get here and that Putin has to pay and entice people to come to resettle in Russia. This country has historically been a beacon to those who are oppressed...not so in Russia. Russia does not score well in the human rights arena.

    Russia has certainly seen improvements for it citizens since the communist days; however, they are still a far cry from a bastion of freedoms that we enjoy here in the United States.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...grants-welcome

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/201...hapters/russia

    I am sure the citizens of Russia would certainly like more freedoms than they currently have and better living conditions; the differences in our countries are not of the regular ordinary citizen but rather the governments and freedoms afforded the populous.

    Apparently both countries are in need of certain labor forces that many immigrants provide.
    Last edited by KathyInAR; June 14th, 2018 at 08:01 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Putin is Pro immigration , should America follow his Model ?

    when I speak of our and of Russians it is the individuals I am referring, the national interest of the citizens. auxiliary customs and language are but a tiny part of the families needs to be Happy and free of worry about War, hunger or health. People assimilating to a different culture carry some traditions and impressions of how we are varied across geographical areas , but in truth there is no great difference between Russians and Americans that is not seen between New Orleans and New York.

    It seems you are talking about conditions these people endured under pre-1990 Governments and are not acknowledging the strides made in the last 28 years by those who stayed and took the problem by the horns in a pragmatic way.

    Now again thinking of the population that makes up the state and imagine your utopian leader , when deciding policy on immigration do we allow a net negative return on allowing people to join our social contract. How thinly do you think we should slice the pie? How much can the American Values tolerate before they are obscured ? Should we put in motion a mechanism that potentially dilutes quality of life for Americans?
    DO you only see immigrants as meager laborers , what about our unemployed ? should we
    kick them out if they wont work and are dependent on the state? Should we take away benefits from disabled and sick citizens to support people who come here in need ? should we pay more taxes to cover the cost? what about Housing should we house immigrants when homeless are prolific. how dense should we populate before we shut the gate?
    who should be turned away? anyone? should policy be dictated by pity?

    How are our self interest Similar? People want to be happy and secure with plenty for there families


    what is the biggest difference in our need for immigrants? Russia has a population decline brought about by the pre reformed state and resulting exodus. We have ample population and lazy too good for some job citizens


    how should our pathways to citizenship be qualified?Benefit to the population and ability to assimilate to a productive life and security of the state against adversarial
    or nefarious actors who would impose their values at a cost to the American Values we hold.


    should Immigration be prioritized by the immigrants needs or the benefits to the rest of the population who share the land? The population, we can't be taking in every stray lest we become liken to old cat lady WE must have politicians that will do what is required for the entire population even when its unpopular , Like a good dad who does not allow bring stays into the home.
    I think Trump is right to push reform and make lawmakers take these questions to task instead of half baked temporary measures. Enforcing current law is paramount to making it happen, don;t blame the current administration for decades of bad incomplete policy. that policy has left people in limbo, extending it and passing the buck for 8 years is what has happened for three administrations. seperating children from parents is aberrant , but its the law. enforcement will discourage further attempts to circumvent the legal process.
    Qualifications to become a US citizen should be clear and concise and be enforced to the letter. #1 If someone wants to share in the American dream and has something to offer they should have no problems overcoming the requirements, #2 If they come seeking benefits and handouts they should be turned away, #3 don't like that, form and finance a charitable organization to help them in their homeland. #4 Political asylum, be very suspicious and refer to 1 and 2.
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Putin is Pro immigration , should America follow his Model ?

    Protesters ideas on Reform, So few have coherent arguments. does anyone have a clue of what the problems are or pragmatic solutions.
    humanitarian issues are not solved by Illegal Immigration.It seems some are so Anti that's all they see.
    we are vastly more focused on what divides us than what unites us

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Putin is Pro immigration , should America follow his Model ?

    Somehow the news, or rather the video folks manage to find the most ridiculous amongst us. Fortunately it is not these folks job to fix the problems. Hopefully, those who do have the responsibility are smarter and have a better grasp of the problems and issues and will begin working on it post haste.
    Last edited by KathyInAR; June 19th, 2018 at 10:09 AM.
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